Mr. X:
I appreciate your e mail, and I'll try to answer some of your questions, hopefully to your satisfaction. I may do a little rambling on with this e mail, but I think I can give you quite a bit of information if you will bear with me.
First, however, at the risk of offending you, let me warn you that, although I am basically a "Ford Man", I am no fan of the PowerStroke. The engine is an engineering nightmare and has as its basic operating premise a simply bad idea.
Essentially, it uses motor oil as a hydraulic oil in a system to fire the injectors. Whoever came up with this idea should be shot. The reason is that motor oil, especially conventional motor oil, in use changes due to operating conditions. Diesels are basically dirty engines, and in order to meet EPA requirements engine manufacturers are doing more to put particulates in the oil so they don't go into the atmosphere. In the future, EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) will put even more dirt and gases into the motor oil. There is a lot of discussion in the oil industry about the effects this will have on motor oils.
When you feed soot into oil, it gets thicker. Thicker oil is less viscous, so a SAE 40 grade oil will become a 50 grade oil. In most applications this is no big deal, but in the PowerStroke this adversely effects the operation of the injector system. Also, it is not unusual for some water to get into the motor oil of an engine, usually due to condensation. Normally, this moisture does not build up much as it evaporates when the engine reaches operating temperatures. But moisture in motor oil can cause foaming. This, again, is a problem normally, but not a major problem except in the PowerStroke. Foaming means the motor oil contains entrapped air and will "compress". This very adversely effects the operation of a hydraulic-type system. As a result, until the "free" moisture evaporates, you will have rough running, which puts even more soot into the oil. If the moisture becomes emulsified into the oil (mixed or blended in thoroughly) that it takes an extended run-time or an oil change to solve the problem. I've also heard of this problem causing the injectors to feed too much fuel into the cylinder which gets down into the oil. The oil thins and effectively becomes a 30 grade oil. As this is also out of spec, it causes more run problems.
Another separate, but similar problem occurred several years ago. My understanding is that Ford used a fairly shallow oil pan and liberally used a silicone gasket sealer. Silicone, when mixed with oil, causes foaming and was causing all kinds of problems with engine performance. Of course, Dealers were just changing the oil which solved the problem, so they were blaming the truck-owners for lack of maintenance. Ford ended up putting a deeper oil pan on and changed gasket material around the oil pan so sloshing oil would not pick up the gasket sealer.
I have several friends and many customers with PowerStrokes, and when they have experienced problems such as the rough operation, black smoke, and hard starting, they naturally take them back to the dealer. The dealer line mechanic, who gets paid based on the job, examines the problem. He gets paid a flat diagnostic fee and then a fee based on the job at hand as per the job-time repair manual. If the repair is a warranty item, the fee book is lower than a non-warranty item, so it is to his advantage to find that it is a non-warranty work item.
So when a customer comes in with rough operation complaints or performance problems, the problem, obviously is with the oil. So he tells the customer the problem is the oil, changes the oil and filter, and charges the customer. The customer is never explained that the problem is not caused by the oil, or the lack of oil changes, or anything about "why" it happened. Sometimes the mechanic can even sell a set of injectors or an injector cleaning job to the customer because of bad fuel or the customers lack of a vigilant oil change program. I've also heard of long term problems because of carbon build-up from running the engine while the injector system is not operating correctly. Read "valve job" and "big bucks".
At 11:26 PM 8/6/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I have a 1999 Ford 1 Ton crew cab with a powerstroke. A very!!!!!
>expensive rig. Ford says NOT to use synthetic oil. So I called Amsoil
>hdqtrs. Their reply, Ford can't tell you what oil to use. Amsoil is
>ok to use. They wouldn't put it in writing.
Ford makes a recommendation of oil to use based on API classification and SAE viscosity grade. Although I don't have a Ford truck manual, I would guess that it calls for an API CG-4, or the newest just-hitting-the-street category for diesels: CH-4. Sometimes heavy duty trucks will include a High Temperature/High Shear viscosity, but Ford can not require any product be used by brand name due to restrictions of law. (See the box on my newsletter page for more information and a link to the FTC site on the subject:
../synthetics/newsletters.html
Now, you say that AMSOIL told you that Ford can't tell you what oil to use. I am sure this is what they were talking about. You may ask the mechanic at your friendly local dealer, or the service manager, or the parts manager, and they will say you should use Ford Oil, or whatever they sell, but that isn't the same. Ask the Dealer that if they require a certain oil, to put it in writing and I'm sure you will find out that they will not.
>So I have a $40,000 rig
>with a Ford warranty that says no synthetic. Whats up?
Ask your Ford Dealer to put in writing where and under what situations no synthetics are allowed in your truck. I am confident that you will find that your warranty is not a conditional warranty based on the use of conventional oil.
Also, keep in mind that you can not "void" your warranty. If you do something that would compromise your warranty, it will only become apparent when you make a claim under your warranty. I have heard of dealers denying a claim due to abuse or other reasons on, say a blown transmission, but that does not "void" the entire warranty, and any denying of a warranty is subject to appeal. Often it is the dealer's attempt to get you to pay for the repairs at a higher rate (see above).
Now, keep in mind that in a new engine, you can not use a synthetic oil to break in the engine. Synthetic is so slick that the rings will not seat. This may be what they were taking about since your Ford is new. You should not switch to synthetic for 10-12,000 miles or until the oil consumption, which is common in a new diesel, is negligible. It is not unusual for a new diesel engine to use a quart of oil in 1,000 miles or less. Once the rings seat, this will be reduced to near nothing.
(For general information, a gasoline engine seats its rings in the first 500 or so miles. Often this is done on the test stand. This is evident as many cars, such as the Corvette and Porsche are shipped from the factory with synthetic motor oil already installed.)
Getting past the break-in period, AMSOIL's position is that it meets all of Fords requirements and is well suited for use in their PowerStroke. I have many happy PowerStroke customers.
One thing to watch is that, if my recollection is correct, the manual says an oil change is about 14 quarts, but the total capacity of the system is about 17 quarts. This is because oil remains in the oil cooler and the injector system. So you only end up changing 80% of the oil when you do an oil change. (One of Ford's better ideas!)
AMSOIL recommends an oil change interval in non-turbocharged or turbocharged diesel engines at up to 2 times (or more with oil analysis) the manufacturers recommendation (I recall the PowerStroke is 5,000-miles), or six months. This means you can go 7,500 to 10,000 miles, or six months, whichever comes first, without an oil change with AMSOIL (and without oil analysis). You said AMSOIL will not put in writing certain things. Take a look at their entire drain interval chart at the following page:
../synthetics/service-life.html
Keep in mind that 90%+ of people still use conventional oil and the manufacturer must make their recommendations for the lowest common denominator, and assume people are going to over-run it anyhow. So to protect themselves, they go with the lowest reasonable possible interval they can sell to their customers.
Also, keep in mind that a stack of receipts do not constitute proof that you have been changing your oil in accordance with Ford's requirements. If you have a claim, the dealer will take an oil sample and see if the oil meets their specification for viscosity and additive level at that time. If it does not, it is your fault, not theirs. It doesn't matter how often you changed your oil.
AMSOIL makes their extended drain recommendation based on their experience that their oil will retain the viscosity and other characteristics for the 10,000-mile or 6-month period. Actually, if you use oil analysis to determine that the oil still meets specification at the 10,000 mile point, then why change it??? If it meets specification, is not contaminated by water, fuel or antifreeze, still has the additive level necessary, and no excessive wear is evident, AMSOIL will say go another 10,000 miles or 6-months, and then test it again. I have taken my Ford E-150 van (gas engine) 40,000+ miles without an oil change in this way. A friend with a Dodge pickup with a Cummins diesel has gone (are you sitting down?) 251,000 miles, 4 years and 7 months, without an oil change. He changes full flow filters at 12,500 miles and by-pass filters at 25,000 miles and puts in fresh make-up oil only.
This is an important point , when you think about it. Four or five years ago, Volvo Heavy Trucks came out with a diesel engine that went 25,000 miles between oil changes. Mack introduced an engine this year that goes 40,000-miles, and Cummins is introducing an engine to go 50,000 miles between oil changes. Why does Ford go with such a short change. First, its their system (discussed above), and second, if you buy a Ford, you get their engine, no other choice. When you buy a Peterbilt, Kenworth, etc., you can specify a CAT, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, or other engine. The fleet managers of the big trucking companies want less maintenance down-time, and the engine manufacturers are answering the needs of their customers. When you buy a Ford, Ford gives you what they have. When you change your oil, it is at your expense, but it assures Ford that they will minimize warranty claims when the oil is changed often.
Really, all they want is for the oil to meet specification for the duration of time that the oil is in the engine. Conventional oil breaks down so quickly, and Ford's system is so hard on oil that they have to require a short change interval. AMSOIL has tested their oil and goes way past minimum requirements, allowing them to have the confidence to recommend an extended drain interval with their product.
One more thing. You are concerned that Ford says "no synthetic". If you have a manual ZF transmission in your Ford PowerStroke, it requires a synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid. It may not say "synthetic" in the manual, but if you check the part number, it is a synthetic fluid.
> What is the TBN
>rating of your synthetic oil?
The oil I recommend for my PowerStroke customers is our Diesel and Marine oil, which is an SAE 15W-40 oil and is a 12 TBN. It has a higher amount of corrosion fighting additives and, therefore, is ideal for marine use. But it is also an excellent all-around diesel motor oil. You can read the specs on this oil at the AME Technical Data Sheet
>Do you need special filters to run
>synthetic?
No. You can use anybody's filter with AMSOIL motor oil that represents that it meets Ford's specifications, but you have to change the filter at the filter manufacturer's recommended interval. That doesn't mean you need to change the oil at that time, just the filter.
AMSOIL makes a filter for the Ford PowerStroke, and their recommended change interval is 7,000 miles.
But even if you don't use AMSOIL's oil, I do urge you to consider our By-Pass Oil Filter. A normal full flow oil filter (even the AMSOIL oil filter) can only filter so well as it must maintain full flow. In other words, all the oil lubricating the engine goes through the filter first. If the filter filtered too well, the filter would plug prematurely and the internal bypass valve would open, circulating unfiltered oil. This happens more than you would expect in the PowerStroke as a result of soot in the oil that is contributed to by the injector system malfunctioning.
A normal full flow filter filters "down to" 10 microns. The problem is a filter is only about 25% effective at this level. A filter's beta rating (the size at which the filter removes 98% of the contaminants) is 20 to 45 microns, depending on the quality of the filter and the type of filtering medium used.
AMSOIL has a bypass filter that takes the oil out of the normal circulation loop and filters it extremely fine. This is not a replacement for the full flow filter, but is in-addition to it. As the engine is not depending on the by-pass filter for a supply of oil, the filtering medium is able to be very dense. It only filters about one quart of oil per minute. This filter has a beta rating of 3 microns, and will filter "down to" 1/10 micron.
What does this mean? The finest tolerances in an engine, such as the ring clearance or the cam to lifter clearance is only about 5 microns (one micron=.000039 inch). 60% of wear is caused by contaminants larger than your tolerances, but too small for the filter to remove. Your oil will still get "dirty" but the dirt that remains is smaller than your tolerances and wear is greatly reduced. Also, the filter medium is so dense that the filter will stop and hold free water in the oil. You change this filter every-other time you change your AMSOIL full flow oil filter.
>Who does oil analysis and how much is it?
There are many companies that do oil analysis for the purpose of wear analysis. Only a few that I know of report on the condition of the oil for purposes of determining that the oil is still good for continued use or not. For this type of analysis, the lab must report on the level of additives still in the oil, whether the oil is still within viscosity, and the TBN and TAN. I recommend Oil Analyzers. For more information on oil analysis and on pricing, Click Here.
>Amsoil may be a
>good product but so far I'm not very impressed talking with their
>people.
Well, it's difficult to please all of the people all of the time. Even I get the same questions over and over, but at least I can post answers to questions to my web site so others can see and read before they e-mail or call me. I hope you don't mind, but I would like to post this e-mail on my newsletter page so others can read it. Please be assured your name and e-mail address will NOT be included.
> I currently use Kendall SHP with K&N oil filters. I change
>every 3000 miles.
>Cost is $28 for 4 gallons of oil and about $11 for the filter. What is
>Amsoil cost?
Over the course of a year going 20,000 miles per year, you will perform seven oil changes at a cost of $39 each (I assume this includes sales tax), for a total of $273.00, plus labor for seven oil changes (and have only 1,000 miles to go for your eighth oil change).
With AMSOIL SAE 15W-40 Diesel and Marine Motor Oil, you will change your oil twice (at 10,000 mile intervals, double the recommended interval of 5,000 miles) and change your filter alone twice more (each 5,000 miles). Let's say nine gallons at retail catalog price will cost you $168.70 (two AME-04 and one AME-1G) plus four full flow oil filters (SDF-99) at $17.75 each for a total of $71.00. I normally recommend an AMSOIL Engine Flush (2 cans (AEF-CN) at $4.50 each for a 14-quart sump, total cost $9.00) at your initial change-over to AMSOIL, but as your engine is new, you will probably not need it, but let's add it in anyhow. The base cost total is $248.70, but let's add sales tax (I'll assume 7%) of $17.41,and freight (84 pounds at $.31/pound UPS), estimated at $26.00, you have a total cost of $292.11, plus the labor for two oil changes and two filter changes.
Your cost over what you pay now is $19.11 over the course of one year, as I see it, and you get the benefits of easier cold-weather starting, less engine wear, cleaner operation, less waste oil to be disposed of [conventional oil: 7 X 15 Qts. = 105 qts vs. AMSOIL: 32 quarts], possibly better fuel efficiency, and less labor doing oil changes (seven complete oil changes vs. two complete plus two filter changes only).
Although it is not for everybody, many of my customers have become AMSOIL Dealers for the ability to purchase their AMSOIL products at Dealer cost. The AMSOIL products above at Dealer cost would total $189.20, plus tax of $13.24, freight of $26.00, and cost of becoming a dealer and the Literature Package (so you can make informed purchasing decisions) of $35.00, a total of $263.44, a savings of $9.56 from your current cost (plus you are a Dealer for six months and may purchase other products at Dealer Cost). More information on becoming an AMSOIL dealer is available. Click Here
I hope this all answers your concerns and demonstrates that all is not what the car dealers and conventional wisdom appears to make you believe.
>
>Thanks,
> X
>
>
>
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